Are you REALLY hungry?

[sharontx]

We have been touching on this topic in another thread, but I thought it might be interesting to see the groups response in a new specific thread.

How do YOU identify when you are really hungry? Actual hunger, not just wanting to 1. stuff feelings with food 2. use food to improve your mood (usually after something or someone upset me). You all know the rest of the list.

How do those with modified stomachs identify hunger? The same way? What is the actual feeling you feel 1. When hungry and 2. When full.

My other BIG changes are that I have a ton of self imposed rules. Like I have to sit down to eat, not in front of the TV and eat when I eat. No grazing, if I am grazing I have to take it to my table. I am trying to eat when hungry and stop when full. I read that the signals are subtle. And I eat when I am totally NOT hungry, going to change that.
I am hoping the behavioral cleanup will keep my regain to nothing (not sure that is possible) or to barely anything.

 

[Fosgate]

For me I feel a slight pulling sensation (almost like a suction) when I'm hungry. I go from that suction like feeling to normal to a slight pressure when I begin to get full. This is where I stop. I eat by time only at 7pm to give my stomach a good 3 hours to clear out to prevent acid reflux when I lay down about 10pm. The second is when I first wake up for the day which can be anywhere between 3am and 8am depending on my work schedule for the day.

Having a Duodenal Switch and Roux En Y I eat a multivitamin the size of two alka-selter tablets and a Calcium chew so I get all my needed vitamins for the day so all I really need is protein, fiber and a bit of carbs for some boost of energy if I'm going to be active. I'll have to take them for life but the benefit of having both is that my Dr, gave me a little extra room for my pouch and and extra 10mm on my bypass. By doing this the plan was less sensitivity to food. So far It seems to be working. I usually do just a few carbs and mostly protein and a few veggies. Aside from that, I'll have a protein drink if I'm not very hungry or I'll add some scrambled eggs with a variety of veggies mixed in (typically Rotel) and a dab of Cholula hot sauce or I'll make Migas on a weekend. That's my morning hook anyway. I'll usually have a protein drink close to lunch if I'm not hungry which is frequent because the high protein meals really cut down the appetite. I notice if I skip a protein in a meal that I find myself going from cupboard to cupboard looking for something later. If I have a good amount of seafood, pork that goes down easy and settles easy, the less I even think about eating and my wife winds up telling me to cook for her. Even then I may not eat or just have very little and save the rest for later. For example, this bowl of migas will typically last me 2-3 breakfast meals. If I hit 7pm and I have not eaten for awhile, i'm not hungry and my protein for the day is short I'll grab a protein drink and that lasts me until the following morning.

 

[3momchaos]

I was just thinking about this today! I have kind of a pulling sensation as well which tells me I’m hungry. In the beginning I timed my eating because I had no appetite. Now I have a pretty set amount of how much I eat. During the day I’ll have water if I feel like I’m mentally hungry rather than physically hungry. I know I need to stop eating when I feel pressure in my new stomach.
I’ve never been much of an emotional eater, I actually don’t eat when I’m stressed. Then when I realize I’m hungry I eat everything and more. Well, I did. Not anymore. When I get to where I can’t/don’t want to eat, I go back to how I was right after surgery and have a set time to eat meals.

 

[missyinacage]

In the beginning I absolutely only ate at the table. I think that's one of the best habits you can have. Even if I just wanted a few grapes .. sit at the dining room table. Sadly, I've let that slide but now that you've got me thinking of it, I'm going to try to re-implement it.
I would describe my hunger as more of a sinking feeling. I really try to stop eating as soon as that sinking feeling stops. If I feel pressure, I've eaten too much. For me, I feel much fuller about 5 minutes after I stop eating than I do while I'm eating. I wonder if I'm eating too fast or if that's just how my body works.

 

[dianeseattle]

I was almost thinking the same thing except, if,like so many of us, you have a recognizable eating disorder, don't trust yourself to recognize signals. They lie to feed the beast.

The best and truest advice I ever received was not to believe my perceptions. WEIGH AND MEASURE.

Your most reliable weapon is your measuring cup or spoon. Even if you've cooked and baked since you were knee-high to a grasshopper, your brain will lie through your eyes. You DON'T know what half-a-cup looks like.

Take it down to the millimeter level. You can't estimate a millimeter. And millimeters add up quick. Look at a 100-millimeter cigarette. Or an 87-millimeter one, which I think is the length of a regular filtered cigarette.

Not advocating smoking, just looking for a common item to use for comparison.

My computer crashed when I was typing this and I lost a lot of my post, so I'm going to send this off and hope it makes sense.

 

[sharontx]

I notice what you all mentioned too, a sort of funny pulling, fullness, pressure or something in the area I think is my stomach. Totally agree about measuring, then I know I ate a third of a cup. I get that pressure sensation when my third of a cup is in or if I add liquid too soon.
Signal mix-up! If we don't recognize the hunger signal how do we know when we are full, did we get that signal?
I KNOW I FANTASIZE FOOD STUFF and it's not hunger. I am trying to ID the fantasy food feelings and not act on them somehow.

I noticed one thing that was cool, sort of. I was thinking I wanted "something" which probably was NOT food, but I didn't want to get my fat @$$ off the couch and go to my table. End result I didn't eat the unknown "something" which was great. Indoctrination is working I hope.

I am about 10 months out so things changed a bit, I "think" I am hungry more often, maybe it is real, don't know yet. I have plenty of restriction so I won't overeat, just graze all day into oblivion (that is a little exaggerated it just seems like it).

Thank you for sharing your ideas, I am learning so much. I hope this conversation gets us thinking. Hope to hear from Judy too!

 

[JudyNY]

Hey Sharon, thanks for mentioning me. I'm taking this all in and appreciate you starting this post.

Quite frankly the reason that I haven't answered is because I truly am struggling. Had a really rough day yesterday which was an eye opener to how off track I have become. Told myself no more, get yourself together! I know what I have to do and reading the posts in this thread came at the right time.

I had stopped journaling my food. Talked about getting back to it but failed, so today my notebook is out and I wrote down what I've had for breakfast and logging my water.

I never did implement the only eating at the table idea. Since my husband and I tend to eat our dinner watching the news and/or Jeopardy, I didn't think it would work for us. Presently my daughter and granddaughter are not here with us, and it's kind of a habit his parents always did when it was just them. But I can implement a version of only eating at the table, such as no more eating at my computer desk, no more eating after a certain hour. I will work on that.

Hunger feelings. Gee, I never really put it in words but a "pull sensation" really does describe it well. I remember when I was earlier on in the process I had trouble knowing when I was full. Eat one or two bites more and it would be a problem because that was too much. Trouble is, now I notice I am able to handle more than I should, so measuring again is in order.

Sharon, you certainly have the right idea. I always say getting back to basics and sticking to good habits lead to success. I need to remind myself that all day today!

 

[3momchaos]

When I am eating in front of the TV I only have a certain amount of food, not like bag of anything like in the old days lol I’ll eat slower when I’m watching TV because it’s just me. When I’m eating with my family I really have to be conscious of my eating speed. It’s like I’m trying to keep with with everyone else, but we always finish at the same time when I eat slowly because I have so much less! I also have to be careful for that when I’m eating in a restaurant. Everything feels so rushed in them and they look at me crossed eyed when I eat slow and savor each bite.

 

[sharontx]

Hey Sharon, thanks for mentioning me. I'm taking this all in and appreciate you starting this post.

Quite frankly the reason that I haven't answered is because I truly am struggling. Had a really rough day yesterday which was an eye opener to how off track I have become. Told myself no more, get yourself together! I know what I have to do and reading the posts in this thread came at the right time.

I had stopped journaling my food. Talked about getting back to it but failed, so today my notebook is out and I wrote down what I've had for breakfast and logging my water.

I never did implement the only eating at the table idea. Since my husband and I tend to eat our dinner watching the news and/or Jeopardy, I didn't think it would work for us. Presently my daughter and granddaughter are not here with us, and it's kind of a habit his parents always did when it was just them. But I can implement a version of only eating at the table, such as no more eating at my computer desk, no more eating after a certain hour. I will work on that.

Hunger feelings. Gee, I never really put it in words but a "pull sensation" really does describe it well. I remember when I was earlier on in the process I had trouble knowing when I was full. Eat one or two bites more and it would be a problem because that was too much. Trouble is, now I notice I am able to handle more than I should, so measuring again is in order.

Sharon, you certainly have the right idea. I always say getting back to basics and sticking to good habits lead to success. I need to remind myself that all day today!

I read something you wrote yesterday and I knew you were struggling (me too!).
Maybe I am too touchy feely but being open to the group is helpful, I feel more connected to our community and I LEARN A LOT!

I truly never knew about sitting down to eat, the pre-op shrink mentioned it and I have read about it but I just didn't do it. But I stand there and eat in the kitchen, or on the go while the dog is out for his morning potty, or in the car (THAT STOPS YESTERDAY!). I used to actually enjoy the "sobre mesa" after dinner, but I want a cup of hot tea with it but it's pretty hard now to do that; so I am doing it free from anything just me and the table and the dog drooling for anything that might be left. My dad who had long since passed, always had a cup of tea and did a short walk after dinner, I grew up with that and lost it. When I am doing the "leave something on your plate" thing, I just feed it to my big dog, he enjoys it.

One tidbit I read in a new book that is sort of too technical for me (touchy feely person) and the author says there are only 3 forms of emotional eating I can only remember two (sorry) but one was bingeing the other was grazing. I stuck myself in the grazer category.

Do you like reading (dumb question I bet you do). Geneen Roth is one of my favorite authors, she had one book called "When you eat at the refrigerator, pull up a chair" excuse my lack of capitalization on the title. It is short fun reading, she has a ton of helpful experience she shares. Try her, I think you will like her. She has been through it all, except what we have been through with WLS.

 

[sharontx]

When I am eating in front of the TV I only have a certain amount of food, not like bag of anything like in the old days lol I’ll eat slower when I’m watching TV because it’s just me. When I’m eating with my family I really have to be conscious of my eating speed. It’s like I’m trying to keep with with everyone else, but we always finish at the same time when I eat slowly because I have so much less! I also have to be careful for that when I’m eating in a restaurant. Everything feels so rushed in them and they look at me crossed eyed when I eat slow and savor each bite.

Oh 3mom, that is the other biggie. Chew and savor the taste of the food, I often just slam it in.

 

[Kathi_S]

Thanks for starting this thread Sharon. Even though I'm just 11 days postop, I found this discussion to be very helpful.

My big plan going into surgery was to use my fitbit app called eatslow (it vibrates every minute to tell me when to take next bite or sip). This would help me slow down enough to hopefully recognize when I was full.

My plan was then to set the timer on my watch to 30 minutes to let me know when I could start drinking water again, using the eatslow app to slow down how fast I drank the water.

Unfortunately, after surgery I completely forgot about this plan! I have been really struggling with eating and drinking too fast. I have been having my meals in the living room, the TV is on, but I'm not watching, my husband is. I should be at the table focusing on my body.

I've been having a lot more discomfort over the last several days, and I really believe it is because I have already become way too irresponsible in my own postop care.

This has been a real eye opener for me. I just hope it isn't too late.

Thanks!

 

[missyinacage]

I think the thing about sitting at table to eat, isn't about the table at all. It's about being mindful of your food; like 3mom said, savoring it. It's so important post op to be truly AWARE of what you are eating. If I eat while reading, watching TV or while I'm on the computer, I'm not paying any attention to my food. That means I didn't enjoy it and quite honestly, I still LOVE to eat. You wouldn't focus on typing to your support group while you were having sex, so don't focus on it when you eat. LMAO (okay .. so maayybee sex is a little more enjoyable.)

 

[JudyNY]

I read something you wrote yesterday and I knew you were struggling (me too!).
Maybe I am too touchy feely but being open to the group is helpful, I feel more connected to our community and I LEARN A LOT!

I truly never knew about sitting down to eat, the pre-op shrink mentioned it and I have read about it but I just didn't do it. But I stand there and eat in the kitchen, or on the go while the dog is out for his morning potty, or in the car (THAT STOPS YESTERDAY!). I used to actually enjoy the "sobre mesa" after dinner, but I want a cup of hot tea with it but it's pretty hard now to do that; so I am doing it free from anything just me and the table and the dog drooling for anything that might be left. My dad who had long since passed, always had a cup of tea and did a short walk after dinner, I grew up with that and lost it. When I am doing the "leave something on your plate" thing, I just feed it to my big dog, he enjoys it.

One tidbit I read in a new book that is sort of too technical for me (touchy feely person) and the author says there are only 3 forms of emotional eating I can only remember two (sorry) but one was bingeing the other was grazing. I stuck myself in the grazer category.

Do you like reading (dumb question I bet you do). Geneen Roth is one of my favorite authors, she had one book called "When you eat at the refrigerator, pull up a chair" excuse my lack of capitalization on the title. It is short fun reading, she has a ton of helpful experience she shares. Try her, I think you will like her. She has been through it all, except what we have been through with WLS.

Thanks Sharon, I appreciate your post. I have a tendency to hold things in too long and before you know it I am really a mess! You are right, I should share more of that when I am here and not just try to struggle through it.

So far I caught myself almost bringing food to my computer desk, which I said earlier I would stop. So I stopped in my tracks and sat back down in my "eating chair."

On a funny note, my husband eats dreadfully slow!!!! You wouldn't believe how many times he takes his dinner plate to the microwave to reheat!! I just roll my eyes, LOL! So if we ate at the dinner table, I would just be twiddling my thumbs until he was done. And if I filled that time with conversation, he would just talk and make the whole process longer with more microwave reheats!! Therefore, I have what I call my "eating chair" as opposed to the dinner table.

I sometimes struggle with books if they get too techie too, but I do like to read. I will check out the book you mentioned. As for bingeing and grazing, I confess I definitely do both and that is what has gotten me into trouble lately.

I also find myself tearing up a lot, so I am probably depressed. I had reduced my Paxil dosage a couple of months ago and perhaps I need to go back up on it. Technically I take them for panic attacks but I think without realizing it, it has been working against depression too. (More often than not, that is what it is prescribed for.) So I will see how I feel in another week or so before I go back to the previous dosage. It was actually my idea to titrate down not the doctor's because I know this med to be a weight gainer.

I am sorry you are struggling too Sharon and I hope this thread of posts have given you ideas to help you through those struggles. I know I have found them helpful.

 

[JudyNY]

Thanks for starting this thread Sharon. Even though I'm just 11 days postop, I found this discussion to be very helpful.

My big plan going into surgery was to use my fitbit app called eatslow (it vibrates every minute to tell me when to take next bite or sip). This would help me slow down enough to hopefully recognize when I was full.

My plan was then to set the timer on my watch to 30 minutes to let me know when I could start drinking water again, using the eatslow app to slow down how fast I drank the water.

Unfortunately, after surgery I completely forgot about this plan! I have been really struggling with eating and drinking too fast. I have been having my meals in the living room, the TV is on, but I'm not watching, my husband is. I should be at the table focusing on my body.

I've been having a lot more discomfort over the last several days, and I really believe it is because I have already become way too irresponsible in my own postop care.

This has been a real eye opener for me. I just hope it isn't too late.

Thanks!

That is cool about the app getting you to eat slow, although I think I would become too preoccupied just waiting for it to vibrate again!

If it helps you to eat better at the table, perhaps just let your husband know you need to do this for a while as your stomach is healing and you are figuring it all out.

Just so you know, there were plenty of times when I switched over to regular food that I ate too fast or too much and wound up not feeling well. I don't think you are alone nor to I think it is too late to correct it. Part of it is just realizing what you stomach can handle this early in the game too. I'm sure you will figure it out.

 

[sharontx]

Thanks Sharon, I appreciate your post. I have a tendency to hold things in too long and before you know it I am really a mess! You are right, I should share more of that when I am here and not just try to struggle through it.

So far I caught myself almost bringing food to my computer desk, which I said earlier I would stop. So I stopped in my tracks and sat back down in my "eating chair."

On a funny note, my husband eats dreadfully slow!!!! You wouldn't believe how many times he takes his dinner plate to the microwave to reheat!! I just roll my eyes, LOL! So if we ate at the dinner table, I would just be twiddling my thumbs until he was done. And if I filled that time with conversation, he would just talk and make the whole process longer with more microwave reheats!! Therefore, I have what I call my "eating chair" as opposed to the dinner table.

I sometimes struggle with books if they get too techie too, but I do like to read. I will check out the book you mentioned. As for bingeing and grazing, I confess I definitely do both and that is what has gotten me into trouble lately.

I also find myself tearing up a lot, so I am probably depressed. I had reduced my Paxil dosage a couple of months ago and perhaps I need to go back up on it. Technically I take them for panic attacks but I think without realizing it, it has been working against depression too. (More often than not, that is what it is prescribed for.) So I will see how I feel in another week or so before I go back to the previous dosage. It was actually my idea to titrate down not the doctor's because I know this med to be a weight gainer.

I am sorry you are struggling too Sharon and I hope this thread of posts have given you ideas to help you through those struggles. I know I have found them helpful.

I had 2 copies of When you eat at the refrigerator pull up a chair, can't find either so I ordered one used $5. free shipping. Yay.
Geneen's books are more stream of consciousness her thoughts and experiences. I am techie but not about emotional issues.
Dang if I could just fill up the unmet needs in my soul, I would be "normal". Losing the weight doesn't fix it all, living proof here. I am afraid and sure I may not ever be "normal" whatever that is.

 

[sharontx]

Thanks for starting this thread Sharon. Even though I'm just 11 days postop, I found this discussion to be very helpful.

My big plan going into surgery was to use my fitbit app called eatslow (it vibrates every minute to tell me when to take next bite or sip). This would help me slow down enough to hopefully recognize when I was full.

My plan was then to set the timer on my watch to 30 minutes to let me know when I could start drinking water again, using the eatslow app to slow down how fast I drank the water.

Unfortunately, after surgery I completely forgot about this plan! I have been really struggling with eating and drinking too fast. I have been having my meals in the living room, the TV is on, but I'm not watching, my husband is. I should be at the table focusing on my body.

I've been having a lot more discomfort over the last several days, and I really believe it is because I have already become way too irresponsible in my own postop care.

This has been a real eye opener for me. I just hope it isn't too late.

Thanks!

I had to learn what I could tolerate food wise when I went to regular eating. Especially at work.
And I have been thinking about you since you are on the other side now. You've been quiet. It's the long haul for us now. Glad we have each other. Try to pull back in areas that might be causing you discomfort. If x bad for the stomach eliminate it. I was afraid of busting my stomach open so I was very cautious.

 

[dianeseattle]

I remember the first time I heard this simple piece of advice:

"Put down your fork or spoon between bites."

This was the hardest thing I ever had to implement. Even when I was consciously practicing this, I'd drift off while chewing and revert to shoveling it in.

I'm still not perfect at doing it, but all healthy eating habits require vigilance to develop. Overeating is like a guilty affair you want to end, but you need the passion.

The only thing that worked for me was DOING IT, forcing it. I had my first cell phone, a PDA, and it saved my life. I entered nutritional info, alarms and journaled my food. It was my de facto conscience.

I had to start by admitting that eating right was like flying a jet without taking lessons. But for all the shame I felt from destroying my healthy, attractive young body, the suffering was preferable.

You may spend the rest of your life suffering with daily cravings. But the comorbidities are like the lowest ring of hell, and that level of agony, living in a diseased body, is a hell you never want to experience.

 

[KarenWV]

I remember the first time I heard this simple piece of advice:

"Put down your fork or spoon between bites."

This was the hardest thing I ever had to implement. Even when I was consciously practicing this, I'd drift off while chewing and revert to shoveling it in.

I'm still not perfect at doing it, but all healthy eating habits require vigilance to develop. Overeating is like a guilty affair you want to end, but you need the passion.

The only thing that worked for me was DOING IT, forcing it. I had my first cell phone, a PDA, and it saved my life. I entered nutritional info, alarms and journaled my food. It was my de facto conscience.

I had to start by admitting that eating right was like flying a jet without taking lessons. But for all the shame I felt from destroying my healthy, attractive young body, the suffering was preferable.

You may spend the rest of your life suffering with daily cravings. But the comorbidities are like the lowest ring of hell, and that level of agony, living in a diseased body, is a hell you never want to experience.

Thank you again Diane for this dose of reality & common sense advice. Simply putting down the fork/spoon between bites is the most practical way of slowing down our eating. It definitely takes lots of practice to make this a permanent habit but one that would make a big difference.

 

[Aface]

Here is my problem. My stomach doesn’get that sensation that I’m hungry. I eat because my MIND is hungry. I have wicked problems with that. Missy, I too get that feeling and I was told by my Dr that you m eating WAY to fast and Not chewing enough!

 

[sharontx]

Here is my problem. My stomach doesn’get that sensation that I’m hungry. I eat because my MIND is hungry. I have wicked problems with that. Missy, I too get that feeling and I was told by my Dr that you m eating WAY to fast and Not chewing enough!

"Ay, there's the rub!"

Adding some context for that quote for the millennials
In Shakespeare's “Hamlet,” when Hamlet was contemplating suicide, he said, ““To sleep; perchance to dream: ay there's the rub: for in that sleep of death what dreams may come?”

I don't listen to all things said by doctors. Yeah we all probably eat too fast, I do and am trying to fix it. But we have to deal with our "perceived hunger" and eat in response to our real hunger. Not the clock or the company or whatever else. I guess I need to put my cookie down between bites, my issue is passing through the kitchen and grabbing something, just because. As soon as I have a problem or some issue, first thing I think about is covering up the feeling with food, that is called stuffing the feelings instead of feeling them. I hate that I do it, but I do it.

You get the hunger sensation, you have to let yourself "listen" for it. It is most clear to me first thing in the morning after not eating for a number of hours. Otherwise I am with you I dunno if I am hungry and I am pretty sure skinny people aren't eating all the time like I do/have done. Maybe identify what is going through your mind when you feel that MIND HUNGER; for me it is something like a particular jerk who is mean to me and I feel hurt, not really hungry, it is hurt. Maybe skinny people don't think at all except about what selfie they are posting next (oh that was not nice).