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must have gastric sleeve surgery first both hips need to be replaced.

Happysoles

Member
I'm scared & in a lot of pain in both hips & have been for quite sometime. They refuse to do the hip replacement until I lose 25 pounds. I FINALLY am going to meet with the RN @ 9 tomorrow to go over preop instructions. So, I'll be starting my 2 week liquid protein diet Tuesday probably. I've been in a lot of hip pain & have been taking 10 mg. percocet one or 2 everyday. Becoming more & more depressed due to the pain & my inability to do hardly anything!
I started seeing the bariatric surgeon July first last year & have finished the requirements to have the sleeve on January 21st finally.
Just wanted to vent I guess. Can anybody share what theirs was like. Did you stay overnight? Any kind words of encouragement would help. This will be hard for me.(the prep) Ive pretty much has a sugar addiction most of my life. I want to kick that bad habit & not feel pain everday. Ive already had both knees replaced.
Thanks, Lori
 
I'm scared & in a lot of pain in both hips & have been for quite sometime. They refuse to do the hip replacement until I lose 25 pounds. I FINALLY am going to meet with the RN @ 9 tomorrow to go over preop instructions. So, I'll be starting my 2 week liquid protein diet Tuesday probably. I've been in a lot of hip pain & have been taking 10 mg. percocet one or 2 everyday. Becoming more & more depressed due to the pain & my inability to do hardly anything!
I started seeing the bariatric surgeon July first last year & have finished the requirements to have the sleeve on January 21st finally.
Just wanted to vent I guess. Can anybody share what theirs was like. Did you stay overnight? Any kind words of encouragement would help. This will be hard for me.(the prep) Ive pretty much has a sugar addiction most of my life. I want to kick that bad habit & not feel pain everday. Ive already had both knees replaced.
Thanks, Lori
Hi Lori and congratulations on your upcoming surgery. I had RNY so I cannot speak to the sleeve but have you read my account of surgery day? This may help you have an idea about what to expect: My Surgery Day Experience.

Many of us can relate to your struggle with sugar/carbs. One thing that most (if not all) bariatric surgeons agree about is that we need to stick to a protein-first diet. I'm sure that your nutritionist/dietitian has already been emphasizing this. The good news is, for me at least, the longer I stay away from sugar/carbs, the less I crave them. At over 9 months, I have had a few treats here and there and some of my old favorites taste way too sweet now. Hopefully your tastes change some too.

Good luck with everything and please keep writing. :)
 
Hi Lori and congratulations on your upcoming surgery. I had RNY so I cannot speak to the sleeve but have you read my account of surgery day? This may help you have an idea about what to expect: My Surgery Day Experience.

Many of us can relate to your struggle with sugar/carbs. One thing that most (if not all) bariatric surgeons agree about is that we need to stick to a protein-first diet. I'm sure that your nutritionist/dietitian has already been emphasizing this. The good news is, for me at least, the longer I stay away from sugar/carbs, the less I crave them. At over 9 months, I have had a few treats here and there and some of my old favorites taste way too sweet now. Hopefully your tastes change some too.

Good luck with everything and please keep writing. :)
Thanks for your encourageant! Ive, unfortunately, had many abdominal surgeries.Ive had 4 abdominal hernia repairs & have a lot of "mesh" i my gut already. I know I have another hernia, also, so Ill have questions for the RN this morning. Im sure I have plenty of scar tissue (along w. 2 of the 3 types of mesh I have were taken off the market) So, I already have gut "issues".
As far as getting up & walking: I use a walker right now due to the immense hip pain. I can walk short distances before having to stop because of the arm pain it causes. Oh, Ill do it believe me, itll just be a joy Im sure. I know I need to move around, walking, to be released home.
Ive been trying to keep my head up. Ive never lived so long w so much pain. Its been very hard. I pray the sleeve goes w/o complications.
I know I shouldnt "put the cart before the horse". Ive had too many bad experiences w abdominal surgery. Ive had 6 abdominal surgeries already! I really dont know if I want the RNY if hes unable to preform the gastric sleeve due to "whatever reason". (too much scar tissue)
He hasnt indicated there could possibly be a problem. but, then again Ive only had one appointment w him.
Im a surgical nurse myself. & know too much. (not really) Doctors love us nurses & doctors as patients, lol.
My alarm is set for 6:30 am & its 3:49 am. Hoping to go back to sleep a couple more hours. Ive been looking forward to today since July one. Its been a long road, & still have a long road ahead.(w the hip replacements) I feel like the hip replacements will be a piece of cake. Im a swimmer, & do aerobics & swim laps, jog in place, 3 times a week on average for the past approx. 5 yrs. So my hip muscles are more then ready!
Anybody out there thats had a sleeve &/or similar expérience w having to lose weight before orthopaedic surgery feel free to write.
Thanks again!! (btw, how much weight have you lost?)
Im craving positive stories!!
 
Thanks for your encourageant! Ive, unfortunately, had many abdominal surgeries.Ive had 4 abdominal hernia repairs & have a lot of "mesh" i my gut already. I know I have another hernia, also, so Ill have questions for the RN this morning. Im sure I have plenty of scar tissue (along w. 2 of the 3 types of mesh I have were taken off the market) So, I already have gut "issues".
As far as getting up & walking: I use a walker right now due to the immense hip pain. I can walk short distances before having to stop because of the arm pain it causes. Oh, Ill do it believe me, itll just be a joy Im sure. I know I need to move around, walking, to be released home.
Ive been trying to keep my head up. Ive never lived so long w so much pain. Its been very hard. I pray the sleeve goes w/o complications.
I know I shouldnt "put the cart before the horse". Ive had too many bad experiences w abdominal surgery. Ive had 6 abdominal surgeries already! I really dont know if I want the RNY if hes unable to preform the gastric sleeve due to "whatever reason". (too much scar tissue)
He hasnt indicated there could possibly be a problem. but, then again Ive only had one appointment w him.
Im a surgical nurse myself. & know too much. (not really) Doctors love us nurses & doctors as patients, lol.
My alarm is set for 6:30 am & its 3:49 am. Hoping to go back to sleep a couple more hours. Ive been looking forward to today since July one. Its been a long road, & still have a long road ahead.(w the hip replacements) I feel like the hip replacements will be a piece of cake. Im a swimmer, & do aerobics & swim laps, jog in place, 3 times a week on average for the past approx. 5 yrs. So my hip muscles are more then ready!
Anybody out there thats had a sleeve &/or similar expérience w having to lose weight before orthopaedic surgery feel free to write.
Thanks again!! (btw, how much weight have you lost?)
Im craving positive stories!!
I had the gastric sleeve before having the gastric bypass. I too had problems with the same hernias. You do stay the night as far as I can remember and they want you to get up and move around so that you don’t have to deal with the gas staying inside and getting painful. I lost over a hundred pounds with the sleeve, but suffered from sodium deficiency and they never figured out why.
I recently had the gastric bypass just about a little over a week ago because I continued to have hernias and my doctor said he couldn’t repair them anymore that I needed the gastric bypass. If your wondering I did end up gaining my weight back, but only because they put me on a high sodium diet and I lost control of myself and started to eat really bad.
I wish you the best and I’m not trying to stir you away from the sleeve. I’m only one case and I’ve seen people that did Amazing with it!! You’ll have to keep me up to date!!!
 
Just take it very easy. And did you know opiates are depressants? That's a lot of Percocet you're taking and it might be contributing to your depression. If you have access to a pool, you might try water aerobics, very slowly and gently, just to move without powerful impact. Also, I'm no doctor, but given your array of problems, you might have to have multiple surgeries to remove fat and scar tissue before the sleeve or Roux-en-Y procedure, if you get there. This won't be an overnight sensation and you are suffering in so many ways, it's almost like you can't win for losing. But you can win, and you will win, in time. Take a deep breath and take it very slowly.
 
I'm new at this website & am still figuring out who wrote what, what to call people, etc. So please forgive me for whatever ahead of time.
Well, my journey continues.....
I had my 2 week pre op appt. w my bariatric surgeon & his nurse about my eating & supplements for the next 2 weeks to prepare my body to be able to have successful VGS (vertical gastric sleeve) surgery on Jan. 21, 2020.
It's almost 10:00 am. I've taken my meds, drinking lots of water, but am not really "up & about" just yet. I'm kinda waiting to hear from my daughter. She's supposed to call, & go w me today to buy the vitamins & supplements I'm starting today. I know that I should already have them, but, yesterday she was unable to ride along w me to my appointment, so I just went home afterwards. I had already been there about 6 hours, & can't handle doing alot right now w my bad hips.
I don't think I mentioned it in my last post, but, I had fallen Friday. It wasn't bad. I fell in my bedroom while reaching to the floor to pick something up. I got a minor scratch & bruise on my leg. I layed there for a minute or 2 to make sure I hasn't broken any bones. I felt ok, so got up.(fri night) Monday (yeterday) was my 9 am bariatric appt. that I'd been looking forward to, so my R hip that had become increasingly more painful w pain radiating to my groin, was not on my mind.
So when I went for my preop appt. then went for labwork & a chest xray, I asked the tech there if she'd ever xrayed someones hip who'd broken it, but could still walk, & she had.
Well, long story short (lol) I dad NOT broken my R hip that was becoming increasingly more painful.Yay!! That's why I was there for 6 hours. I drove to my appt. alone, but used valet parking, so wasn't concerned about walking very far to my car. I was transported to various departments via wheelchair, by a nice gentleman named Rufus.
Anywho, I got home w/o my needed protein powder, vitamins, etc. to begin today.
I think I had my questions answered by my doctor & nurse answered ok, but I'm still nervous, never the lest. I'm 62 years old, & ashamed to say that I've had a sugar addiction most of my life. so, I'm "bas ically" going cold turkey on sugar & carbs for the next two weeks. That's part of the reason I haven't gotten. my day started. I vowed to follow all my instuctions to a T, to have a successful outcome.
I was told the first couple of days would be the most difficult. To be honest, I'm looking forward to feeling better & improving my health!
Thank you for your comment about the painpills adding to my depression. I'm sure that's true. Unfortunately they're what's keeping me halfway sane right now.Also. staying in bed late. The later I stay in bed, the less narcotics I take. If I have an errand, appointment, or some other household funtion to accomplish, I need the painpills to at least be able to funtion halfway normally:-(
After my hip replacements it'll be different & such a better life! REALLY looking forward to that day!
And your suggestion about water therapy, you didn't happen to read my other post about attending a gym weekly to swim & do water aerobics. I call the gym "My Oasis". I've been working out regularly since I joined about 6 yrs ago. That was when I had a hip xray due to pain, & my diagnosis was "bonespurs". As a nurse, I was well aware what that meant. My hip was starting to show signs of "wearing out". At my orthopaedic dr.'s suggestion at that time was to get my weight & BMI down "in case" he had to replace a hip. Thats when I started checking out gyms to join, because I knew this was serious & was going to need support. I found a cool gym that besides the usual exercise exercise equipment, there was a pool, hot tub, steam room & dry sauna. Perfect, & the price was right. Long story short,I eventually over a few months time lost 60 pounds! I started swimming after work every evening. It was hard, but my hard work was paying off!
In the meantime, I'd lost my longtime (14 years) nursing job at an eye surgery center, lost my health insurance, & the following month had emergency abdominal hernia surgery & spent 10 days over Thanksgiving as an inpatient after my complicated hernia repair. A couple of other things happened financialwise, not to mention losing my job literally approximately 2 weeks away from closing on the house I was living in & had been renting, but my landlords decided to sell their properties. I liked my home, and was close to becoming a new grandma, liked my neighbors, & didn't want to b forced into finding somewhere else & moving within 30 days! So, just for the heck of it, I thought I'd apply for a home loan, & try to buy it! Really, I didn't think I'd be able to buy it due to past events. I was just trying to buy time to figure out where I was going to move. Long story short, even though I'd lost my job & had major surgery, I FINALLY was actually able to buy my own home!! In the meantime, w all the stress, I ended up gaining half of the 60 pounds back, that I'd lost! Yuk..... Need to go buy my supplements & eat .
 
Sorry I missed your swimming comment in your previous post. You & I have a lot in common, and one of them is writing long posts! I try not to but generally fail. So sorry about the loss of your job, but congratulations on buying a house! I envy you that, but in a good way. There are legitimate psycholgical connections between the psyche and houses, especially if your dreams feature houses prominently. The house is an archetype for your very being, your ego, your most essential self.

And I was just at my eye surgery center for the millionth follow-up appointment about the cataract surgery I had more than three months ago. I've had this inflammation on my retina and my doc tells me it's a biological anomaly that can be tested for in advance of surgery, but no insurance will pay for the test. So since the 25th of September, that problem has added to my depression significantly.

Today I broke down & started crying in the exam room, in between the drops in my eyes and the doctor coming in. I just could not stop crying, and that's just a visible symptom of depression that happens. I think it's worse, though, not to cry. I've been in a nearly catatonic state since my beloved son had a complete mental collapse right here in my apartment, the night before he & I were supposed to move into a beautiful two-bedroom house. He was supposed to be paid as my live-in aide by the state because of a constellation of problems I have, including falling, but most dangerously, sleepwalking. He spent six months studying and had just passed the last test that day. Everything was going to be heavenly.

I didn't know he had been expressing his complete horror about living with me as a caretaker. It's not like I'd be difficult. I'm healthy, for the most part, and he & I have gotten along like two thieves his entire life. No one has had a better mother/son relationship than us. He was the greatest joy in my life. Now he won't speak to me, even though the episode he had was not remotely related to anything I had done. He just hadn't gotten up the nerve to tell me he didn't want that job, so he flipped out, got delusional, jumped out the bedroom window breaking the screen, and ran off to live in his Jeep.

Many other bad things happened after that, but I lost my chance to get out of this horrible apartment & into a house, with a yard where I could have a garden, and he spent weeks running me down to my exhusband and his wife, behind my back. All that is part of his mental health diagnosis, but it still hurt me on the deepest level. Every day my life gets worse because this just keeps going on and on.

Like everyone, I need love, and I never loved anyone as much as my own kid. Not having him in my life is exactly like being a widow in terms of loss, but of course, it's worse because he's still out there, not getting help, blaming me for everything he did, as if I'd driven him to it. In truth, I've been walking on eggs with him for years because I could detect certain behaviors in him that scared me, and I didn't want to be a trigger.

My depression has gotten so bad now that I've spent a lot of time--most of the time--thinking about death, wishing I would die. That's nothing new for me. I've had suicidal thoughts and made gestures for the last 51 years, though I haven't had to be hospitalized since 2005. I'm now hampster-wheeling with seeking remedies, including hospitalization with serious therapy to treat my major psychological complaint, which is PTSD.

I've already written reams of words about this to this group. But about a week after his meltdown, I fell and broke my wrist and ulna in four places. I'm having surgery a week from today to attach a transplanted ligament to my thumb, which stopped working and just hung there, flopping, after the tendon to it ruptured. I have so much pain all the time, but Percocet wouldn't help me, as it's so localized. I need a topical solution, or, of course, surgery. And then my thumb will be pulled back and casted in traction for 8 weeks while it accepts the new ligament/tendon.

My apartment is a disgrace. I have fruit flies from my compost not being emptied, or my garbage. My sink is piled with dirty dishes. Everything in my living room and bedroom is a mess. I've slept on the floor the last two nights. My obsessive thinking is in charge and with what's going on in the world right now, I feel completely helpless to find any joy.

That brings me here, as I rely on this group as if you were all my friends I meet up with for coffee. Some of my posts of late have been way out of line and reflective of my sense of futility and rage.

What is important to note, at this point, for both of us and everyone else whose been a victim of obesity is to distinguish between shame and guilt. It was like a lightbulb going on over my head the day someone told me that guilt is about something I did, and shame is about who I am. Since that day, I've happily recognized moments when it was appropriate for me to feel guilty, to apologize, make amends, learn and try to do. But shame is that thing that is such a suffocating, chained-on cloak, recognizing it doesn't help. I have to blast it with a rocket launcher and do something to make it go away.

When I left my ophthalmologist, I had three errands to run and I immediately recognized the voice in me that said, "nah, you don't need that, just go home and lay down and watch TV without answering your door or phone." I walked down the street to buy a pack of cigarettes, which is something I do sometimes when I feel stressed beyond medication. There was this lady walking her dog and she smiled at me, so we talked about her dog's hounds-tooth vest with a big red heart applique on top. I had just heard some millennial call that pattern "dog tooth," so I guess hounds-tooth is out of fashion now, and I shared that with the lady and we just laughed and laughed. It's like drip coffee, which I've been making for 40 or 50 years now, but the kids want to call it "pour over" coffee, which is just one of the stupidest modern semantic twists I've heard for a long time. It's not the pouring over that makes it coffee; it's the dripping of the brew into its container.

Anyway, it was good to laugh, so I went on to my other errands. Everyone I met was so lovely and engaging, I felt my load being lightened and happiness squeaked in a little through a crack in my angst. At my last stop, I was talking to the checker at Trader Joe's, and I said, "You know what's made me happy today, in spite of being badly depressed? People like you. Strangers on the street. Baristas. People in parking lots." God, it just felt so good. I actually cleaned up a few square feet of my living room the second I came in the door.

One of my errands was to buy stakes so I can tie up these huge split-leaf philodendrons I gave to my son, which he threw out in his rage, after loving them for at least 20 years. Brenda probably remembers a line from Codependent No More, where a woman was chronicling her depression and downhill slide. She was able to recognize it when all her houseplants died. It's a benign murder but it's also a potent symbol, if you can't even manage enough strength to water your plants so they can live and provide oxygen for you to breathe. So I bought stakes at the hardware store and am looking forward to my task today of tying up the huge branches that have gone sideways and taken up all the space on my dining room table. I did some roping yesterday, but realized I needed stakes and twist-ties to do it right.

Here are two BEFORE shots. After shots later today.
2281


2283
 
Diane, I'm new to this site today. I've already read several of your posts. What a horrible tornado of events you have been experiencing, esp. your son's behavior. I have depression also, but right now it's managed pretty well with Viibryd and Abilify. I'm having sleeve surgery on 1/21/20. Two weeks away. What an adventure awaits. I have no great words of wisdom, but am sending support vibes your way. Mary
 
Thank you so much Mary, and welcome to YOUR group. We're here for you, no matter what. And I read your other post and wanted to make one comment. Although it doesn't matter whether you have the sleeve or RYGB, but your doctor is kinda exaggerating about the calcium deficiency. I take 500mg 3 times a day and my metabolic blood panels are in the awesome range. I get calcium elsewhere, as well, but if that was the ONLY reason not to get the bypass, it would be a mistake. Still, you might prefer the sleeve.

I do notice a lot of people quote their doctors as saying things I think are kind of weird, but most surgeons are right on. Your nutritionist, who should be part of your team, can set you up so you offset the malabsorption completely. Read our stuff here because there are so many living, breathing, happy stories about success, including mine! A lot of people have also got really challenging lives and always did, and sometimes this is a very sad place because of sad things that happen. But sympathy and empathy are learned and given with both hands, and we somehow manage to remember that we are all loved here. That makes a lot of stuff bearable.

And p.s. to you and the rest of my dear friends here. My son has agreed to go to conflict resolution with me. And I put out all kinds of feelers to find someone, and ended up talking to a Lutheran Brethren minister who would love to do this for us, for free. I asked Avery if he would have a problem with seeing a minister and he said no problem. So I'll be pursuing this angle and if things go well, we'll be starting the process within the next two weeks.

I'm so relieved, I can't express it. I"m scared, too, but I don't want to lose my child if we can find a way to come back together. And this pastor is super-cool. We had a lot of theological discussion on the phone and though we differed wildly, we both happily accepted our differences. And conflict resolution, in the tradition of the Brethren and the Quakers, doesn't involve praying and sermons. It comes from that place of belief that people are imperfect and sometimes get bogged down in places and need to find their way back out. They are experts at this (I even took the training when I was a member of the Brethren).

Again, welcome and here's a big {{{{{hug}}}} to get you started.
 
Thank you so much Mary, and welcome to YOUR group. We're here for you, no matter what. And I read your other post and wanted to make one comment. Although it doesn't matter whether you have the sleeve or RYGB, but your doctor is kinda exaggerating about the calcium deficiency. I take 500mg 3 times a day and my metabolic blood panels are in the awesome range. I get calcium elsewhere, as well, but if that was the ONLY reason not to get the bypass, it would be a mistake. Still, you might prefer the sleeve.

I do notice a lot of people quote their doctors as saying things I think are kind of weird, but most surgeons are right on. Your nutritionist, who should be part of your team, can set you up so you offset the malabsorption completely. Read our stuff here because there are so many living, breathing, happy stories about success, including mine! A lot of people have also got really challenging lives and always did, and sometimes this is a very sad place because of sad things that happen. But sympathy and empathy are learned and given with both hands, and we somehow manage to remember that we are all loved here. That makes a lot of stuff bearable.

And p.s. to you and the rest of my dear friends here. My son has agreed to go to conflict resolution with me. And I put out all kinds of feelers to find someone, and ended up talking to a Lutheran Brethren minister who would love to do this for us, for free. I asked Avery if he would have a problem with seeing a minister and he said no problem. So I'll be pursuing this angle and if things go well, we'll be starting the process within the next two weeks.

I'm so relieved, I can't express it. I"m scared, too, but I don't want to lose my child if we can find a way to come back together. And this pastor is super-cool. We had a lot of theological discussion on the phone and though we differed wildly, we both happily accepted our differences. And conflict resolution, in the tradition of the Brethren and the Quakers, doesn't involve praying and sermons. It comes from that place of belief that people are imperfect and sometimes get bogged down in places and need to find their way back out. They are experts at this (I even took the training when I was a member of the Brethren).

Again, welcome and here's a big {{{{{hug}}}} to get you started.
Wow Diane I didn’t know all that stuff was going on with you .I know you mentioned some problems geeze I’m sorry I mentioned I am an agnostic. I hope that didn’t anger you I’ve been trying to figure out this God stuff since high school just haven’t gotten there yet . Like I said I don’t like to discuss religion and I hope I didn’t offend anyone who’s read that post. I’m not against anyone else’s beliefs
 
Diane I can 100% understand where you are coming from! I feel for you and hope the counseling helps so much!!! Sometimes our kids just have more going on than we know of. I go through that with my daughter and I suffer from more than depression. Girl I have my plate loaded, but I am doing ok thanks to the help that I get. I really hope this all fixes itself. We need our children so much!!
 
Wow Diane I didn’t know all that stuff was going on with you .I know you mentioned some problems geeze I’m sorry I mentioned I am an agnostic. I hope that didn’t anger you I’ve been trying to figure out this God stuff since high school just haven’t gotten there yet . Like I said I don’t like to discuss religion and I hope I didn’t offend anyone who’s read that post. I’m not against anyone else’s beliefs
Not a problem in the least, Bill. I've never quite gotten to the point where I could say I'm an atheist, but I'm done forever with Christianity. I won't go into it here, and there are so many sweet people who will tell you they're praying for you and would never imagine not having their church in their lives, and I respect them. The reason I mentioned this is that philosophically, I gravitate to good people, and most of them never set foot in a church. However, Jews and Christians, in general, learned a lot about their ethical beliefs through religion. I can't speak for Muslims, but I do believe they also have fervent and nonviolent beliefs. I come from a super-rigid, shame-based religious culture. I never fit in. I always felt judged by the people & never heard a word from God. I was deeply immersed in the Christian Reformed church because it's Dutch and I'm Dutch and all my huge family is Dutch, so it was extremely important to demonstrate to others what good Dutch people were.

I probably have 40 ministers in my family, at least, and several missionaries. But I have a lot of problems with all that. When I was talking about sexism, I was coming straight from how I was raised, as a worthless girl child. Nobody counted but the men and boys. Nobody was allowed to ask uncomfortable questions about why we all felt like outsiders.

One day someone said something to me about my religion being founded by a mass murderer. They were talking about John Calvin, and guess what? He was! Anyone who didn't agree with him was burned at the stake, or beheaded or some other grisly public murder. That put me right off Calvinism forever.

And this is the general chat forum, so it's okay to talk religion here. I don't want to insult anyone else, but I find Buddhism makes the most sense when it comes to spirituality. I have extremely strong, negative opinions about Christianity, starting from wondering why I have to take the blame for what the Romans did to Christ because he died for me. I didn't ask him to. I never would ask anyone to. And it's a ridiculous premise. The person doing the dying is the one who needs a reality check.

But I'm a big fan of C.S. Lewis & because of my upbringing and excessive church going, I pretty much know the bible backward and forward. There are some great stories in there, but not meant to be taken literally. There is beautiful writing in the Psalms and a lot of sex in the Songs of Solomon. But the Jewish Bible, specifically, is unafraid to point out the flaws in people, like David, who had his best friend killed so he could have sex with his widow. I also learned a great deal about the devotion of women friends by reading the book of Ruth. And for a while, I studied to convert to Judaism, but found that I would always be a stranger there, and I felt like a stranger in my own faith already. So I checked the No Preference box and I live a life where I try to be kind, I never steal, I never physically hurt anyone, would never murder and when I did bad things like cheating with someone else's husband, I never justified it. I admitted it. I was wrong.

The lovely pastor with whom I spoke tonight heard all these things from me. He's not out to convert me, and he treated me like an equal as we discussed different points in religion. He assured me that in his work, he would never try to offer God as a fix, but that our human problems would have human solutions offered. And he's seeing us at no charge, which showed his character. I, of course, will show mine by making a generous donation to his church, even though he is moving on to another ministry in two months.

The development of conflict resolution in Brethren and Quaker traditions was intended to bring warring nations to the table, to help them find a way to get along. And I loved this unfathomable thing, where no brethren would kill a man, even if he was about to kill his children. They believe it's wrong to kill, even then, because by doing so, you are taking away that evil man's only chance to repent to god and receive salvation. They also have a custom of eating the Last Supper together in the dark, in bare feet, silently. And then each person kneels down and washes another person's feet, experiencing the humility in that. It's powerful. But even there, I never heard from God.

I don't know why I can't feel what others claim to feel, but I can't fake it. There have been a lot of people who have done wonderful things for me, in God's name or Just Because. My path is full of these people, and they are my religion.

I hope those of you who are happy in Christ will follow the Golden Rule here, as Christ would have. And remember First Corinthians 13 (KJV): "The greatest of these is [CHARITY, aka LOVE]."

gotta paste some of it in...

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Some of the most beautiful words and philosophies are contained in the Bible. But there's a huge difference between those and what people actually do so much of the time. And there are equally beautiful words in the Koran and the Talmud and let us not forget the brilliant Lebanese poet/philosopher Kahlil Gibran, who also wrote about love and god in The Prophet:

Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.

Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;

For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, “God is in my heart,” but
rather, “I am in the heart of God.”

And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you
worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself.

gimme that old time religion, Bill. Love is where you find it.
 
Diane I can 100% understand where you are coming from! I feel for you and hope the counseling helps so much!!! Sometimes our kids just have more going on than we know of. I go through that with my daughter and I suffer from more than depression. Girl I have my plate loaded, but I am doing ok thanks to the help that I get. I really hope this all fixes itself. We need our children so much!!
Thank you so much, Meranda. And I want to give a big shout-out to other mothers and fathers who have expressed similar pain when all they wanted to do was love their children. <kisses>
 
Not a problem in the least, Bill. I've never quite gotten to the point where I could say I'm an atheist, but I'm done forever with Christianity. I won't go into it here, and there are so many sweet people who will tell you they're praying for you and would never imagine not having their church in their lives, and I respect them. The reason I mentioned this is that philosophically, I gravitate to good people, and most of them never set foot in a church. However, Jews and Christians, in general, learned a lot about their ethical beliefs through religion. I can't speak for Muslims, but I do believe they also have fervent and nonviolent beliefs. I come from a super-rigid, shame-based religious culture. I never fit in. I always felt judged by the people & never heard a word from God. I was deeply immersed in the Christian Reformed church because it's Dutch and I'm Dutch and all my huge family is Dutch, so it was extremely important to demonstrate to others what good Dutch people were.

I probably have 40 ministers in my family, at least, and several missionaries. But I have a lot of problems with all that. When I was talking about sexism, I was coming straight from how I was raised, as a worthless girl child. Nobody counted but the men and boys. Nobody was allowed to ask uncomfortable questions about why we all felt like outsiders.

One day someone said something to me about my religion being founded by a mass murderer. They were talking about John Calvin, and guess what? He was! Anyone who didn't agree with him was burned at the stake, or beheaded or some other grisly public murder. That put me right off Calvinism forever.

And this is the general chat forum, so it's okay to talk religion here. I don't want to insult anyone else, but I find Buddhism makes the most sense when it comes to spirituality. I have extremely strong, negative opinions about Christianity, starting from wondering why I have to take the blame for what the Romans did to Christ because he died for me. I didn't ask him to. I never would ask anyone to. And it's a ridiculous premise. The person doing the dying is the one who needs a reality check.

But I'm a big fan of C.S. Lewis & because of my upbringing and excessive church going, I pretty much know the bible backward and forward. There are some great stories in there, but not meant to be taken literally. There is beautiful writing in the Psalms and a lot of sex in the Songs of Solomon. But the Jewish Bible, specifically, is unafraid to point out the flaws in people, like David, who had his best friend killed so he could have sex with his widow. I also learned a great deal about the devotion of women friends by reading the book of Ruth. And for a while, I studied to convert to Judaism, but found that I would always be a stranger there, and I felt like a stranger in my own faith already. So I checked the No Preference box and I live a life where I try to be kind, I never steal, I never physically hurt anyone, would never murder and when I did bad things like cheating with someone else's husband, I never justified it. I admitted it. I was wrong.

The lovely pastor with whom I spoke tonight heard all these things from me. He's not out to convert me, and he treated me like an equal as we discussed different points in religion. He assured me that in his work, he would never try to offer God as a fix, but that our human problems would have human solutions offered. And he's seeing us at no charge, which showed his character. I, of course, will show mine by making a generous donation to his church, even though he is moving on to another ministry in two months.

The development of conflict resolution in Brethren and Quaker traditions was intended to bring warring nations to the table, to help them find a way to get along. And I loved this unfathomable thing, where no brethren would kill a man, even if he was about to kill his children. They believe it's wrong to kill, even then, because by doing so, you are taking away that evil man's only chance to repent to god and receive salvation. They also have a custom of eating the Last Supper together in the dark, in bare feet, silently. And then each person kneels down and washes another person's feet, experiencing the humility in that. It's powerful. But even there, I never heard from God.

I don't know why I can't feel what others claim to feel, but I can't fake it. There have been a lot of people who have done wonderful things for me, in God's name or Just Because. My path is full of these people, and they are my religion.

I hope those of you who are happy in Christ will follow the Golden Rule here, as Christ would have. And remember First Corinthians 13 (KJV): "The greatest of these is [CHARITY, aka LOVE]."

gotta paste some of it in...

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Some of the most beautiful words and philosophies are contained in the Bible. But there's a huge difference between those and what people actually do so much of the time. And there are equally beautiful words in the Koran and the Talmud and let us not forget the brilliant Lebanese poet/philosopher Kahlil Gibran, who also wrote about love and god in The Prophet:

Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.

Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;

For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, “God is in my heart,” but
rather, “I am in the heart of God.”

And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you
worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself.

gimme that old time religion, Bill. Love is where you find it.
Oh hey guys I’m gonna jump in . I’m one that will pray for you. I believe in God because I have had miracles happen to me that happened while I was being prayed for. However! I have friends of all faiths including one that is so crazy into posting daily a ton of atheism posts, lord that’s actually making atheism look bad tbh, but I still love her and just laugh because I know on she’s trying so hard to get attention, but Because she thinks it’s going to bother me and it doesn’t, not one bit. I believe that you should be able to believe in whatever you want.
I do not go to church. I did not raise my children in church. I have no real religious preference, now is that not weird? I was born into a extremely strict religious home and I was molested by our pastors son as well as by our babysitter. Nothing was done because your supposed to forgive and forget. No sorry not this girl or my sister. We moved away from the church later in life, but my parents still had friends in the church. I kept one. She knows everything and has done everything as well as moved away and kept her children away from there.
so I believe in God, but I don’t know my religion yet. Still very hard to explain to people. They always ask me how can you? I was extremely sick when I was little and told I could lay in the hospital and die or go home and die. I had people pray for me that night that loved me so much and well I’m here today and I had no medicine or anything.
I can’t explain it other than God. My daughter believes, my husband and one son doesn’t, but my son with Autism has questions, but goes back and forth. I hope I never offend y’all if I say it. I say god bless your heart and it’s because we say it here in the south too, so please remember that.
 
And p.s. to you and the rest of my dear friends here. My son has agreed to go to conflict resolution with me. And I put out all kinds of feelers to find someone, and ended up talking to a Lutheran Brethren minister who would love to do this for us, for free. I asked Avery if he would have a problem with seeing a minister and he said no problem. So I'll be pursuing this angle and if things go well, we'll be starting the process within the next two weeks.

I'm so relieved, I can't express it. I"m scared, too, but I don't want to lose my child if we can find a way to come back together.
I'm so glad to hear Avery agreed to conflict resolution Diane.
 
so I believe in God, but I don’t know my religion yet. Still very hard to explain to people.
Meranda, I love your voice & am so glad you jumped in. One of the men who molested me in childhood was also a minister, but I had to keep being exposed to him because he was also the town cobbler and we had to make our shoes last a long time. Oh, and he had a candy counter in front of the store and his home was in the back. He molested me and at least one of my sisters, right in front of his wife, who sat there knitting, while holding us tight on his lap. The other one was a young man from my church. But I didn't blame God for them. That would have required much more sophisticated thinking than I could express, and I couldn't even explain it to my Mom or Dad because I didn't know what those parts were called "down there." However, my Dad did catch the second one in the act. He was luring us girls into barns and outbuildings on our farm & the one next door and managed to digitally violate us and demonstrate his anatomy. Someone ran & told Dad, who came back with a stick and just wailed on the guy, then dragged him to his house to tell his family what he'd done. I happened to be laying in a manger, no kidding, that's where he lured me, then ran when he heard the commotion, so I just hid there, thinking I was in trouble.

Sexual molestation is a big contributor to obesity, among other things that go wrong later. I was only about 8 years old & never told anyone until I was a teen, when I confided in my cousin Mary. I don't think religion is ever a factor in pedophilia, even when a minister is doing it. Another man who molested another sister was the man who used to deliver baked goods, Wonder Bread, no less, and he was a friend of my Dad's. He gave us bread that would be stale, at the end of his deliveries. About 15 years later, he took a shotgun to his head while his son was in the next room. It's stunning sometime how tragic life is, and how unnecessary that tragedy is. I've never gotten over it because it stole something from me I could never get back, and it took years and a lot of research and writing about the crime to get to the point where I could turn it from a wound to a scar. I think it should be a capital crime, but there's always a chance the accused might not be guilty, so it never will be.

You're a valuable contributor to our group and I'm so glad you have a center of faith in your life.
 
Oh hey guys I’m gonna jump in . I’m one that will pray for you. I believe in God because I have had miracles happen to me that happened while I was being prayed for. However! I have friends of all faiths including one that is so crazy into posting daily a ton of atheism posts, lord that’s actually making atheism look bad tbh, but I still love her and just laugh because I know on she’s trying so hard to get attention, but Because she thinks it’s going to bother me and it doesn’t, not one bit. I believe that you should be able to believe in whatever you want.
I do not go to church. I did not raise my children in church. I have no real religious preference, now is that not weird? I was born into a extremely strict religious home and I was molested by our pastors son as well as by our babysitter. Nothing was done because your supposed to forgive and forget. No sorry not this girl or my sister. We moved away from the church later in life, but my parents still had friends in the church. I kept one. She knows everything and has done everything as well as moved away and kept her children away from there.
so I believe in God, but I don’t know my religion yet. Still very hard to explain to people. They always ask me how can you? I was extremely sick when I was little and told I could lay in the hospital and die or go home and die. I had people pray for me that night that loved me so much and well I’m here today and I had no medicine or anything.
I can’t explain it other than God. My daughter believes, my husband and one son doesn’t, but my son with Autism has questions, but goes back and forth. I hope I never offend y’all if I say it. I say god bless your heart and it’s because we say it here in the south too, so please remember that.
Never offended
 
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